[RcsShrimper]

Hello all havent posted here in a while. I have a problem with only my yellow shrimp. Theres around 3 or 4 right now seems to be an infection or blockage of the intestine track. They all have it at the bottom of their tails. The bump turns red where the blockage is and the whole shrimp turns white. Its only in my yellow tanks which is odd. I have blue pearls greens and reds. I have two tanks of yellows and both have the shrimps with the same disease at the same time. Has any had this before? and should i put down the infected. It seems its the digestive tract being clogged or something. 2 are berried as well. I lost one so far the others look lethargic

[purgatori27]

Yikes! That doesn't sound good at all! Very disturbing that BOTH tanks of Yellows have this problem. That would indicate to me that you use the same equipment for both tanks, or have recently moved something from one tank to the other and the problem could be contagious. I'm not saying it IS contagious, only that it seems very likely. Unless, of course you started with one colony of Yellows and created two and they were all sick or had it to start. Let's start with a few details about the tanks in question. Can you please give us water parameters, how often do you perform water changes, what type of filtration (use carbon? replaced it lately?), things like that so we can get a better view of the big picture here. I would probably perform and maintain water changes immediately, make sure filtration media is working properly (carbon is fresh or whatever). Water quality can be responsible for an otherwise healthy animal taking a sudden turn for the worst, such as due to infection. Also, please let us know HOW you came to have two Yellow shrimp tanks...when they were established, so we can guess if they were infected then separated or not, and such. I have never experienced what you have described, so hopefully another here on the forum may have more info on this.

[RcsShrimper]

purgatori27, on 24 June 2010 - 06:58 AM, said:

Yikes! That doesn't sound good at all! Very disturbing that BOTH tanks of Yellows have this problem. That would indicate to me that you use the same equipment for both tanks, or have recently moved something from one tank to the other and the problem could be contagious. I'm not saying it IS contagious, only that it seems very likely. Unless, of course you started with one colony of Yellows and created two and they were all sick or had it to start. Let's start with a few details about the tanks in question. Can you please give us water parameters, how often do you perform water changes, what type of filtration (use carbon? replaced it lately?), things like that so we can get a better view of the big picture here. I would probably perform and maintain water changes immediately, make sure filtration media is working properly (carbon is fresh or whatever). Water quality can be responsible for an otherwise healthy animal taking a sudden turn for the worst, such as due to infection. Also, please let us know HOW you came to have two Yellow shrimp tanks...when they were established, so we can guess if they were infected then separated or not, and such. I have never experienced what you have described, so hopefully another here on the forum may have more info on this.

I started with one tank of 10 yellows you sent me purg about 1 year ago lol. Than i wanted to split the best colored ones so I made another tank about 4 months ago. Both tanks are on the opposite side of the room. They have different sponge filters. Water param : ph 7.4 ammonia and others are at 0. It just my yellows are effected by it. I share nets with the tanks next to them and both my yellow tanks are paired either with a blue tank or red. The blue tank and red are really healthy. Its just my yellows with the red bump at the end of their tails which look like they block all the food coming out. I do a weekly 20% aged water change. Ill clean out the sponge filters maybe that could be a problem. Have you had any problems with the red bump at the end of their tails. They become pale too. Ill be changing out water and give a quick squeeze on the sponges.

[RcsShrimper]

I think I might of found the reason. I have super brine shrimp i fed only to my yellows it contains a copper ingredient. I tend to spoil my yellows.

[Neonshrimp]

Sorry to hear about the losses and problems you experienced :(. Hope removing the copper source will be the solution. Please keep us updated, thanks.

[purgatori27]

I remembered sending you the Yellows, just making sure they were the only ones you had. As I said, I've never experienced what you are going through. I can visualize it, but I don't know what it could be from. My Yellow shrimp are super bright, so I would definitely notice if they were to become pale and sickly. It is possible that the copper in the food could be the culprit, but just keep in mind that some folks do feed their shrimp food with trace amounts of copper sulfate with no (noticeable) ill side effects. For instance, I feed my newts a well balanced tiny pellet food that contains copper sulfate, and I have a thriving Cherry shrimp colony in their tank. While I don't recommend using anything with copper in it officially, I have used foods with copper in it with no problems that I could tell. I do not use anything with copper in my shrimp only tanks, just to be safe.

Just curious, how long has this problem been noticed? Did it just occur, or have you noticed over the last few months that something weird was happening? I would definitely try a different food, which I'm sure you already have. I'll try to see if I can locate any other similar stories or pictures online. Can you take a pic, by the way? Sounds like you know how to maintain proper water parameters, so that's a good thing. I'm amazed that so far no one has chimed in that they've seen or heard of this. Like I said, I'll try to find time in this busy weekend (college finals this week) to check it out. I'm very curious to know as well what could be going on with your little pets!

[AquaGirl]

Sorry to hear of your losses. :th_smiley_sigh:

I also know quite a few people who use food that contains copper sulfate without issues. This sounds like it is along the lines of a bacterial or viral infection, IMHO. As Purgatori stated a picture would give us a better idea of what might be going on.

I would also suggest separating the shrimp that are sick from the shrimp that look well. This might help save some of your colony should this be contagious.

I would suggest that you use two separate nets for those two tanks so that there is no possible contamination issues with your other tanks.

[purgatori27]

I totally agree with Aquagirl! Not everyone has the space for extra tanks to separate your stock, but if you do...I would.

[AquaGirl]

purgatori27, on 25 June 2010 - 11:30 AM, said:

I totally agree with Aquagirl! Not everyone has the space for extra tanks to separate your stock, but if you do...I would.

I should have been a little bit clearer, sorry. He already has two tanks of yellows......move all the sick into one and the healthy ones into the other. :D

[purgatori27]

Sorry Aquagirl, I got what you meant. I guess I was thinking if it's contagious, I'd be scared it's in the water and not necessarily transferred from shrimp to shrimp or by eating the dead. I'd take the dead ones out, by the way so they cannot be eaten by other shrimp. When I read this yesterday, I was thinking move the infected shrimp to one and healthy to the other, just as you said...but I guess I lost that thought...floated away in a dream last night or something. My first thought was that it was also viral or bacterial. Great minds think alike, too bad most of my good ideas fall out of my ear and get squished on the floor before I can actually benefit from them! LOL!

[AquaGirl]

purgatori27, on 25 June 2010 - 11:41 AM, said:

Sorry Aquagirl, I got what you meant. I guess I was thinking if it's contagious, I'd be scared it's in the water and not necessarily transferred from shrimp to shrimp or by eating the dead. I'd take the dead ones out, by the way so they cannot be eaten by other shrimp. When I read this yesterday, I was thinking move the infected shrimp to one and healthy to the other, just as you said...but I guess I lost that thought...floated away in a dream last night or something. My first thought was that it was also viral or bacterial. Great minds think alike, too bad most of my good ideas fall out of my ear and get squished on the floor before I can actually benefit from them! LOL!

:tumup:

Squished on the floor? :lol:

[RcsShrimper]

Thank you for all the advice. I stopped feeding them kens fish food super brine shrimp flake which seemed to be the culprit. I took the dead ones out ill try to get some pics if there are still some infected. The yellow shrimp were my first shrimp and are still my favorite. I realized I tend to kill them with kindness by giving them more of a variety of foods than my other shrimp. I call the tank the one that started it all tank lol.

Ya your shrimp get a bright yellow purg thanks again. Right after I got your shrimp I got hooked on inverts and started collecting various colors. I dedicated more than half my tanks now to them. Ive been introducing them to a lot of local people and some internet friends. I always get the story of how the smalls ones were eating by fish mates..... lol. The infections just started last week. I just remembered I wanted to see if the high protein would help my yellows out. I fed them the super brine shrimp flakes and noticed some ill shrimps popping up only in my yellows. it has COPPER PROTEINATE which might be the problem.

Oh and good luck on you finals purg . I just past my big final and i know its killer hehe

This post has been edited by RcsShrimper: 27 June 2010 - 02:22 AM

[RcsShrimper]

I got a pic it was the best one before she could head to the back of the tank.

Attached File(s)

•  infected.jpg (18.3K)
  Number of downloads: 0

This post has been edited by RcsShrimper: 27 June 2010 - 02:45 AM

[purgatori27]

Look at that pic RcsShrimper posted and my avatar pic...same stock of Yellows...how very sad I was to see that sickly little shrimp up there!

You know, I have never seen copper proteinate in any of my foods. I did a very quick Google of "copper proteinate" just now, and the first definition I found was NOT encouraging, LOL!

"Copper proteinate (IFN 6-09-896) is the product resulting from the chelation of copper with amino acids and/or partially hydrolyzed proteins, as defined by the Association of American Feed Control Officials. It is a nutritional animal feed supplement formulated to prevent and/or correct copper deficiency in animals."

That does not sound good at all for an animal that should have VERY minimal copper. Contrary to popular belief, shrimp do need SOME copper, but the amounts are probably so small that a regular diet of various foods will take care of this need. I'll have to do more research, but if copper proteinate has a tendency to build up a little in the system, then that very well may be what is killing your shrimp. However, if the amount of copper proteinate in the flakes you are using is only in trace amounts and therefore only added to the label to educate you, then it's probably not the culprit.

Sounds sketchy, I know. But consider this, every body of water that sustains life contains copper and every living thing requires at least a small amount. Copper is a very important component and absolutely essential to the performance of enzymes. It is a key component of enzymes, compounds that act as catalysts in the metabolism of organisms. In fact, Dr. Lewis, the University of British Columbia oceanographer, notes that "copper concentrations in crustaceans may be elevated compared with other groups since many crustaceans use copper in a blood pigment". That is why, if you look closely, blood on an uncooked shrimp looks bluish, a typical color of certain forms of oxidized copper. Copper in marine invertebrates plays the role that among humans is performed by iron, which is present in blood as hemoglobin. It doesn't take much copper to perform its critical role in marine species.

On a more positive note, I'm so glad I could help you with your invert addiction. It happens to the best of us! Sounds to me like you are doing exactly what I had hoped for: sharing with others locally and online the joys of invert keeping. Thank you for "Paying It Forward", as I wished!

[ScottLand]

It sounds like the copper proteinate might be a catalist to lower the imune system by allowing to much copper to buildup in the shrimps system causing an infection that is fatal.I hope you were able to fix the problem, RCSshrimp!

This post has been edited by ScottLand: 30 June 2010 - 11:48 AM

[RcsShrimper]

All shrimp who were infected have past. It was the super brine shrimp that did them in. I have stopped feeding and now they are all active and flying around. So Im taking that off the shrimps menu just garlic and calcium pellets for now. Thanks all for the responses.

[purgatori27]

Hopefully, the rest will be fine.

I like to keep this in mind:

We never make mistakes, we just learn from our experiences! - Thomas Edison

[ScottLand]

purgatori27, on 01 July 2010 - 10:29 AM, said:

Hopefully, the rest will be fine.

I like to keep this in mind:

We never make mistakes, we just learn from our experiences! - Thomas Edison

I agree!
this thread should be a sticky or attached to another sticky.